Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Shelley: Hello, Playful business owners everywhere. It's been a while since I was last on the air on the Playful Mompreneur Podcast, but I'm delighted to be back talking about money. I'm Shelley Tonkin Smith and today I'm talking about the top three money mistakes I see mompreneurs and business owners making.
And I'm going to be chatting with my friend and biz buddy Anne Gray. We actually recorded this interview in the same room across the desk from each other. That's a first for me, I'm usually recording on a video call. And our kids were having a play date and I think at the time they were even playing music together
so it had a very playful mompreneur energy about it, this interview. So let's dive into that interview with Anne, where we talk about the top three money mistakes you want to avoid, and our best strategy for doing so.
[00:01:01] Anne & Shelley: Hello, everyone. It's Shelley Tonkin Smith here, and I am chatting to Anne Gray today, and we are talking money, small business, money and finance. So hello, Anne, and welcome to the Playful Mompreneur. This is so exciting. So Anne, Is of the Leaders Library and she has her own consultancy Solutioneers, and Anne and I are collaborating, on the Leaders Library for a read along of an amazing book called Profit First.
Now, Profit First has revolutionized the way I manage my money in my business, and it has helped me to get over three of the top mistakes that I could have gotten into and I was in back in the early days of my business. So right now, I have a copywriting agency business and I do online courses for women entrepreneurs who are looking to sell with their words.
And Yeah, Anne, tell us a little bit about your business before we kick into these top three mistakes that new business owners can make.
Oh, thanks, Shelley. So, yeah, Solutioneers started in around about 2020. In fact, it started in 2019, we took on our first project, which we then had to finish during the global pandemic.
That was interesting. Um, but back then I had I had a team, I had a project manager, and I had a business partner, and I had a couple of other people working for me, and my business partner decided to retire, and we restructured the entire business, and I am now on my own in this company that I took over called Solutioneers, and really looking at working with people who want to define a new reality for their business.
So that could mean that they want to professionalize their operations and they're not sure how or where to do that. Or it could mean that they have been working in corporate for a long time and they actually want to get out of corporate. They want to go on their own. They want to start a business, but they don't know where to start because they've been in corporate for, you know, 20 years.
Which is a completely different beast. 100 percent. So. Yeah, so last year I sort of experimented with a couple of things and started the Leaders Library as a vehicle to provide the missing element for people at a very low cost. So whether it's wanting to know how to grow your business, whether it's wanting to know how to manage your business, whether it's wanting to know how to manage your team, um, or manage your money.
And so the idea is that we pick a book and we read the book together. And then people go and implement what they've read. So it's a community. We connect with people. We then read a book and then the idea is that they take that, what they've learned back into the space and they lead with that so that they improve the world.
Yeah. One leader at a time. And I really like the format of it, of taking that book iteratively. We generally spread it over eight weeks. And so you can, you know, it's a manageable pace. It gives you time to actually implement what you are learning in the book. So often we read a book and then you actually forget about it because there's not that space to apply what you've learned.
And yeah, you can also apply it with other people's inputs and, um, yeah, other people's experiences. to just guide you and to enrich the experience of the book. So yeah, the next book that we've got on the bill and a read along that I'm going to be leading with Anne is Profit First by Mike Michalowicz.
And we are so excited about this because we are seeing small business owners make three mistakes. And we don't need to make those mistakes as small business owners, because the problem is that it's jeopardizing your business come tax season. I mean, it's now the end of February as we're recording this.
I think there's a lot of tax panics happening and that doesn't have to be that way. And Profit First shows you a method. But let's talk about the top three mistakes that we've seen people making, we've made ourselves.
[00:05:09] Mistake #1: Mixing business and personal money
[00:05:09] Anne & Shelley: And the first one that I want to highlight. Is when you're starting your business, please go and separate your business money from your personal money.
So a separate business account to your personal account. Even if it's just one business account. You can operate as a sole trader, but I encourage you to set it up as a separate business. A PTY. Yes. Yeah. It's so worth it. It's a bit of a mission to start off, but if you find a good secretarial company, they can help you set it up and you will, yes, it limits your liability between you personally and your business, and then have separate bank accounts for yourself and your business.
Don't just then go to your clients and say, okay, we'll just pay it into my personal bank account. There's so many mindset reasons for this, but my big one, Anne, is that you Then, pay yourself from your business to yourself. So, Solutioneers pays Anne, and Shelley Smith or Actionlight pays Shelley Smith herself.
There's then a, you feel like you are getting a set salary each month, even though you're in your own business. Um, has that been something that's been important for you?
Yeah, look, I've never really had the situation where I have I've had a personal account where money's been coming into that for my business, but what I can tell you is a mistake that I've caught myself making is paying for business expenses outside of the business.
So um, you know, I'll be in Spar and I'll see a ream of paper and I know we're running low on paper and I'll just pop that into my trolley and pay with it, with my monthly groceries or with my weekly groceries or whatever, and never actually go and recoup that cost from my business expenses, um, I'm not the best when it comes to keeping the slip for anything.
And so I don't have the evidence that I spent that money on the rem of paper. In fact, I can't even the remember how the business Exactly. Yeah. And so I can't do the expense claim that I need to do through the ERP system.
And so what happens is I find that there's these blurry lines between my personal finances and my business finances. And I think that's really dangerous. You know, I think if you haven't agreed with your, you know, with, let's say if you are married or you have a partner and you've got to agree within your budget, like what is the, what is the money that we are going to consciously put into the business every month if the business is requiring that.
And that, set that up as a loan account. And actually say, I have loaned my business 10, 000 Rand this month or a thousand dollars, or whatever it may be. I have loaned my business and one day when your business is more profitable, you can pay that loan back without incurring income tax on it. So I think if there is the need to put startup capital in and you're doing that as a family and that's something that you've agreed, make sure you are booking it as a loan to the business.
Make sure that all of that, so if you did buy a ream of paper and you had to pay the Wi Fi out of your, or the ADSL, oh my gosh, listen to me, ADSL, you had to pay the fibre expenses out of your personal finances, then book it as an expense claim and then book it as a loan account and then those things will accumulate and when there is spare cash in the business you can pay yourself back without incurring income tax.
I'm so excited about talking about that day that will come where there's that spare cash in your business because It is sooner than you might think. If you manage your money right. Exactly. So this profit first method helps you have the system that you can start making that kind of profit and that extra money a bit more of a habit. Rather than a just, Oh, maybe it might happen at the end of the financial year kind of thing.
So there you go. So two separate bank accounts and then pay yourself, even if it's a small salary. Pay yourself that salary as a signal to yourself that I have this job and I have this money coming in.
Yeah, I have a, I have a, um, a startup client. He's just starting his business, starting from absolute ground zero. He saved up money. He's got money to kind of finance, his lifestyle for the next year. But what I've said to him is you are, you, you know, you've got a client, you know, you're going to be earning some revenue, even if it's just a little bit of money, pay yourself a salary every month, even if you don't necessarily need it, pay yourself something to get into the habit of paying yourself something.
Um, and I think that's so important, even if you're a startup, even if you're starting from ground zero and you've got one client, make sure that you are paying yourself. Something. Yes. Um, even if it's below the tax threshold, which, which is ideal. Yes. But yeah. But it sets those constraints. Um, it sets up those constraints.
And we'll again, talk a little bit more about how Profit First constrains you in the best of ways. So that, that's number one. If that's the only thing you take away from this, it's, that's important to me, is go and set up a separate bank account for your business, separate your personal and business, entities.
[00:10:13] Mistake #2: Getting intimidated by ACCOUNTING
[00:10:13] Anne & Shelley: The second one I want to talk about is, Anne was talking about loan accounts and accounting there, and like, there's some fancier accounting stuff, and Anne is an MBA, so she's very comfortable with these kinds of things, but a person like me, I'm more of a creative and I know a lot of people listening are going to identify as this kind of creative spirit that just can't do numbers.
And I'm going to say to you, please don't, don't own that. Um, just because you don't understand accounting doesn't mean that you can't understand your own money. You can. Change the system to make yourself understand it. It is absolutely possible for you to understand it. And then as you understand it, and like I found as I've implemented more profit first stuff, the world of accountancy then opens up to me because it's not so intimidating.
Cause I think what happens is people feel intimidated by their accounts. As you say, you're like, Oh, I'm not keeping proper records and, and, and it then actually snowballs and it's often a tax season, uh, when you now have a sudden tax bill or surprise tax bill that you have to pay or, um, or one month you're like, I can't pay myself any salary whatsoever.
I didn't get a client this month. And it's because you've almost ignored money and, uh, someone explained it to me. And it's a horrible surprise. Yes, nobody wants that. It's like that, they said, it's almost like you see someone at the grocery store that you don't want to see and you like avoid them. And sometimes we treat our money in our business like that because we feel intimidated by SARS and accountancy.
All of that is very separate to Managing money in your business. So please can we like separate those two out. It is possible for anyone. To understand their money in their business, and it's about actually changing, changing the system. I mean, have you had cases of like bad tech surprises?
Well, Shelley, let me start off by saying that all of the things that I learned in my MBA, I actually had to just pretend I didn't know when it comes to profit first, because the MBA way of doing things is about about using debt and gearing and, discounted cash flows and all of those kinds of things.
And, and so if you have an MBA, Profit First is going to teach you a whole new way of doing your, your finances in your small business. In fact, I would, I would say my MBA did not prepare me for small business finance. Profit First, however, is such an interesting way of, of doing this because what you do is you start off with, this is the revenue that I'm going to earn.
I must make sure, now in my case I'm registered for VAT, for VAT. Yes, and I'm not. Yes. So we've got the experience from both sides. Right. So when I get a deposit into my account, I take, doesn't matter, What time of the month it is, I do banking generally on the 10th and the 25th of the month. Sometimes it's more like the 27th, but 10th and 27th are roundabout.
And I will go in and I will take 15 percent of every single deposit and I will put it straight into my VAT account or into my tax account. Because I have had, I've had people close to me who have used that revenue and then gotten into trouble with SARS later on and You know the last thing you want to do is get into trouble with the revenue collection service because they are the most Uncompassionate of institutions.
I won't say people because, you know, these real people that work there, but they are the most uncompassionate of institutions. And unfortunately you cannot guarantee that if you make an arrangement with them, that arrangement will carry through the entire organization, you know? So, so you just want to avoid that.
So I take 15 percent of every single deposit and I put that into my VAT. My VAT savings or my tax savings account. And what that does for me is it ensures that I can pay VAT, I pay VAT every second month and it ensures that I can pay that VAT. Now obviously if I'm paying out vat, then I deduct. What I, the VAT that I have paid out for various goods and services before I pay my VAT.
So what it means is that I have more than enough. Oh, nice. Yeah. For my tax because if I, if let's say I've earned I've earned a hundred thousand rand, I put fifteen thousand rand into my VAT account and then maybe I've got two and a half thousand rand of VAT claimable. And that means I only owe the taxman 13 and a half thousand rand of that, but I had a 15, 000 rand provision.
And so then that little amount I can take out and I can put into my savings account. Amazing. So by doing that, I know I have enough. And that has been critical for me as a little startup to make sure that I don't get into trouble with the taxman. And When I think about, I never, other than that MBA that I did, which I mentioned, did not prepare me to run my own business.
I studied fish before that, I was BSc Marine Ecology Honours. So what do I know about finance? And I didn't even do accounting at school. So, you know, when I was with a business partner, he had a, we had a finance manager and she took care of the money and my business partner pressed the authorize button and I had very little to do with the running of the finances of my own business so if you let it become a surprise, it's never going to be a good surprise. You've got to stay on top of it.
It's like having an important conversation with somebody that you know you need to have. If you don't have that conversation, it just festers and gets ugly. It's the same with your money, and then you've got to pay somebody to unscramble the egg. That's what I was going to say. You get into trouble with SARS, but also, I was just thinking the bureaucratic nightmare of now trying to correct that mistake, even if you can come up with the money.
It's like the bureaucracy of all that, then all your energy is focused in the wrong direction. And the peace of mind that you're describing here is just And that's something that I've found with this method, is that I have peace of mind actually knowing where my money is. So, in the read along, as you'll go through the book and you'll see how this is done, It all comes down to what is an old fashioned envelope system where you have yes,
So you might have had one of your grandparents, um, might have drawn out there or gotten paid in hard cash and then they took that money and went Rent is so much and put that in the rent envelope. Groceries are this much and this is what we're saving for holiday. And each, each little envelope was, it was allocated, it had a job to do. So that's what we're doing with Profit First .
[00:16:54] Mistake #3: Not taking a profit
[00:16:54] Anne & Shelley: So that actually brings me to mistake number three is that small business owners don't allow for profits. No. And so in the beginning, what I'm saying is pay yourself.
But I'm talking now in mistake number three is actually keeping aside a business dividend profit that you are going to take at the end of your financial year as your reward for being a business owner, for being the CEO of that business.
The, the mistake is not taking a profit and not paying yourself, and you then get to resent your business.
Because you're like, why am I doing this? This is just not worth it. And sure, we're not all in business just for the money. But You certainly need money to keep living the life you're living and honestly to bring good into the world. You know, I think there's, there's nothing, uh, to me, I see money as very neutral, but it's how we manage it and how we work it that is, that is the important part.
So in the Profit First system, I think I'll just explain there, there's five like essential bank accounts, so you're going to have your, checking account, your main account where all the money comes in. Then you're going to, the first step for Profit First, if you're getting started, is take 1 percent of that and put it in a savings account.
Preferably like a 7 day or a 30 day notice account so that it's a little bit like It's hard to get. It's hard to get, yes. You're gonna, you're gonna use it as celebration money, so keep it aside. And then you're gonna save for your taxes. And as Anne says, I think it's an important one. Might be an important one to do even before profit.
Yes. I think your tax money, that's, it's not money that you own, it's not yours. Yes. It doesn't belong to you. It never did. Yes. So just forget it. Yeah. And put it in a nice interest bearing account.
Yes, I do that. Yeah. And then you can get the interest until, until the government does need it. So how cool is that? Then you don't have to feel like, yeah, I don't know, it just makes me feel a little bit happier about paying tax if I got a bit of interest in the meantime. And then the other bank account that you're going to have is your expenses and this is the thing with profit first is that you're taking your profits before your expenses.
So you're saving for tax, you're saving for profits, you're paying yourself in your owner's compensation account, you're setting yourself an actual set salary every month, same thing, the same, you know, and then you can play around with that as your business grows. And only then, only once those All of these have been taken care of, do you then say, okay, I've got this for expenses.
Whereas I think the old way, we would go, okay, cool. Well, I'm starting a business. So let's um, you know, let's get a premises and buy laptops and, sign up for this software and that software. And so then, you know, oh my goodness, all these expenses. Oh, and I don't have enough money to pay myself.
Whereas Profit First flips that script and goes, pay yourself first. Pay your taxes, um, save for profits, and then go, okay, how much is left over? Then work within that constraint, and that's your, that's your expenses. So yeah, I think that for me has been, been mind blowing, and it's really helped me make decisions in my business about what I can spend on.
Because if there's money in my expenses accounts It's like, cool, yeah, I can afford that. I can afford it. I know I can afford it. I can just look at the bank account and I can see, yes, I can afford it. I don't have to do too much, like, emotional, like, spiralling, which I'm prone to do.
I think the temptation for me is to quickly look on my banking app and see what is in my income account.
Okay, great. In my current account, I've got however many thousand Rand I can definitely afford to pay that annual subscription on that piece of software that I haven't used for five minutes, um, because I'm going to get a 10 percent discount if I do it that way. Meanwhile, what I should be doing is. Not have that disposable income in that account.
Mm-Hmm. . And I say disposable, but it's not actually disposable because I need to, first I need to move it into my tax account, then I need to move it into my profit account. Then I need, need to move it into my o owner's compensation account. Now what is actually left. Yes. You know? Yes. And I think another thing that sometimes we don't have a great handle on is what is my burn rate in my business?
So in other words, how much money does my business need to operate outside of my income? When I, and when I say my income, I mean my owner's compensation. Okay. So as a solo preneur, if you want to earn 30, 000 Rand a month, And you want to take 1 percent profit and you know that you're going to have to pay the tax man 10, 000 rand.
Right, great, you all of a sudden need to make sure that you have got 45, 000 rand before you can start spending anything. Yes. And so if you've taken that money out of that income account, it's not tempting you. No. It's not saying, it's not giving you a false signal of, yes, you can go spend this money because that is what it is.
It's a false signal. Yes. So, yeah, I think once you have removed the money, the temptation is gone to spend it because it's not there anymore.
And, the other interesting thing that he advises is the money that your revenue comes into is not the same as your expenses are paid out of. Yep. And that is, that is interesting because if there's nothing sitting in your expense account, you cannot.
So what that means for people who have established businesses is it means you either have to change the account number that's on your invoices. Mm-Hmm. or you have to change the account number that is, that you pay with, that is being paying out. That you're paying out of. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And depending on how many things you've signed up for, you know which one's gonna be easier.
But that is such a, that's such a difference 'cause a lot of people just use the same account for in and out. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. What I've got is, and what works quite well, is I've got a credit card and when I first started my business, I couldn't get any credit. Which actually was a total blessing in disguise, because it basically was a debit card. So I put all my expense money into that credit card and, and then pay from that, that's my, my credit card. And then I have a separate current account. where my income comes in. So that works quite nicely. And then you have the functionality of a credit card.
Often, you have to have a credit card to sign up for services or whatever. Um, so that, that works well. I actually do have a little bit of a credit on it now, but I'll make sure that I don't go into that credit. Um, or you could just tell your bank, don't give me credit. Yeah, the same thing as an overdraft and you're gonna get fees on that.
Yes, exactly. So as you say, we have a human tendency to go, what's in my bank account? Okay. And then you make a decision just what's in your bank account. But if your bank account is any, and he compares it to the size of your plate, if you eating dinner and you have a massive plate, you're going to dish that plate up, you go to a buffet and you, you know, you're going to max out that plate, you dish up so much.
But if you have a smaller plate, a little side plate, and then you go, okay, well I can only dish up. As much as it's my, in my little side plate and that's what you're doing. You're going, okay, my expenses is the side plate. I do, this dinner plate is irrelevant because that is, it's allocated. It's off to different, different places.
And so it actually, that's what I'm saying. We're changing the system. And so if you don't understand accountancy, This is the way that you're going to understand your money in layman's terms. And don't worry, the accountants can figure it out. That's true. A good one. That's true. Um, and an open minded one.
It's more important for you as the business owner to have this financial, knowledge and decision making capability in your business, then the accountants can do what they are good at. Yes. And you're still gonna need them. You're totally gonna need their expertise in terms of how much tax you make.
There's got no way I'm drawing up my own annual financial statements. Not a chance. No, no way. They have to do that. And that's not, Profit First is not gonna help you do that. No. Profit First is gonna make you the, the, It's CFO of your business, your little small business, so you'll be able to go in without having to get a bit of an accountancy degree or at least a short course in accounting, because who's got time for that?
But this is so much more, I feel like a natural way of managing your money. So we'd really like to encourage you if you are making any of these mistakes, or if you are worried you could be, or that you're, you know, skirting the line here. If you're starting a business, start it like this. Yes.
So that's also to say, this is never too early or too late to start. If you are just starting a little side business, it's a side hustle and you, and you thinking, no man, I'm not even making any profit. No, no, no, no, no. Right. Right. This still applies to you. You still get major benefit for yourself in the long term.
And also, if you feel like you're in a bit of a pickle, and you don't know, you've made some messes in your accounts, you can totally You can retrofit. You absolutely can. So, come and join us for the read along. It's starting on the 7th of March. It's a Thursday at lunchtime. We get together.
So in that first Read along. You don't even have to have read any of the book. We're going to give you a little bit of an overview of what the book's about and then you can get it on Amazon Kindle. It probably will be the easiest. It's not generally available in hard copy in the South African bookstores, but you can, if you're listening to this right now, you can probably order it from exclusive books and they can get it through to you or from Takealot, if you want a hard copy of the book. I know you've also been enjoying the audio book.
Yeah, I will say this about the audio book and that is that when he starts to get into the formulas and the tables, you need the visual. But the audio book is such great value because he does a lot of hints and tips offline that aren't in the book.
So, yeah, I went and did both. I went and got the audio book and the Kindle version and, um, I'm definitely finding it's nice to listen to the audio book, but I mean, chapter two, when he goes into all those formulas and chapter four, when he's in all the tables, you need to. You need the, you need to see it.
You need to see it. Yes, yes. So, so there you go. You, there's, there's options and you can go and have a look if you don't know about Everand. It used to be called Scribd. For a monthly subscription, you can get a bunch of books.
So come and join us. Where can people go and to come and join us for this read along? leaderslibrary. co. za And you click the join button, it'll take you through to the community and there all the events will be listed and you can join the event. Um, it's happening on the 7th. On the 7th of March.
Great. So that's the, that's our totally, totally free event. If you're even curious about this, come along to that event and then thereafter you can decide whether you want to pay and join up for the rest of the read along. It's a really low priced offer and I truly believe you are going to, this is going to return money wise.
Yes. It's so much for you. Just by managing your money, I think you'll. You'll, you'll thank us later. So we hope to see you on the 7th and thereafter for the next seven weeks after that, we'll meet each Thursday at 12 o'clock South African time and talk through the book.
Any questions, we'll go through the principles in each of the chapters and, and let's, let's make lots of money and manage it in a wise way.
Yeah. I think if people miss the 7th, we're still going to be taking people into the program up until the 11th. Um, and they can watch the recording and they can grab the recording.
Yeah. So if they haven't managed to catch this podcast before then, it will actually, enrollments will be open until the 11th and then people can, can jump in. So there is a little window to catch up if you, if you missed out.
Yes. Absolutely. And you'll get that augmented appreciation of the book, and you can actually apply, you can ask questions of Anne and myself, and you can ask the other people in the read along as well, if they're in different industries, there's often insights that come out, ideas that are shared, and, you just don't feel like you are doing this on your own.
And there's the accountability to implement what's in the book. So, and I think that's the most important thing is that we are going to say to people, have you opened your. X, y, z account this week. Yes. So it, it will provide people that just that boost that it takes to sort of maximize the learning from anything that you read.
Absolutely. 'cause there's moments where it can feel a bit overwhelming and you're like, oh, we almost a start. Yes, we, we, we will help you and, and just makes it that much more fun and you can start seeing results much quicker.
Yes. I think the other thing to address is this is not just for South Africans.
Yes. Yeah. Look, we've got our South African accents here, but this is written by an American man. It's, yeah, it's, it's for everybody across the world it's for everyone, everywhere. We all have to pay a tax, right?
We all have to pay tax and we all have to pay ourselves. Yes, it's, it works. Regardless, but yes, you'll have a couple of the calculations in rands for a change and We'll be dealing big numbers But everybody's invited. It's cool. All right. Thanks so much I hope that we'll see you on the 7th of March and thank you Anne for chatting money.
This is fun This was awesome. Thanks, Shelley. Bye. Bye
Shelley:
Oh, it was great to be back podcasting on the Playful Mompreneur again. I'm Shelley Tonkin Smith and thank you to Anne Gray for sharing her insights today. You can find the show notes for this episode at playfulmompreneur. com and go to theleaderslibrary. co. za to sign up for that free introductory session on Profit First, which is on Thursday, the 7th of March, or you can get the recording there.
I'll also leave a link in the show notes. to that as well as a link to join the full eight week read along. So that is 1749 Rand. That's around 90 US dollars. So we've tried to keep it very affordable because we really want to see business owners like you flourishing financially and managing your money in a way that gives you peace of mind.
And before you run, go ahead and hit subscribe, why don't you? Let's just say that the Playful Mompreneur is back, and I've just got a renewed sense of energy to help you grow your business through your words, through your web based tools, and most importantly, through the wisdom that comes with a playful mindset.
So see you soon!
